If You Don't Respect Catelyn Stark GTFO
Mar. 5th, 2019 08:57 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
pigtailed_goddessThis discussion on Catelyn Stark got my goat up!
You know why I still read about ASOIAF or Game of Thrones? Because seeing how people write about Catelyn Stark is a reaffimation of my belief in sexism in our lives and how no matter how they couch it, people are bias as fuck against women.
Catelyn is the greatest fucking character of the series because she is a spotlight of real in bullshit fantasy narratives and bullshit protagonists for women. She is a whole person; not an ideal, not a sexy fantasy, not a self insert or power fantasy, or a demure backround figure, or saintly icon. She's dealing with life as it happens, and aging, and thinking, and feeling; all for herself and others, and as mother, and daughter, a wife; her own POV in all of it. She tells her view on her life, through her own lens and both her POV input on others, and her actions in the story as a whole have game-changing impacts on other character's emotions, actions, and the overall plot. Even as she exists in a fictional patriarchal fantasy, she shows and represents so many things women have to do or deal with to just fucking live, and it all applies to right here, right now society as well. I think men don't have a fucking clue how to relate to it and other women don't like looking at the dark mirror, hence she gets so much hate. Just like a woman does.
What really makes my blood boil about discussion on Catelyn Stark? Motherhood. Love. Her relationships with Jon and Ned. She must fit the perfect ideals of mother or of wife, even as they hard conflict in this case. I mean it makes sense. That's the common accepted avenues of narratives for women. Lover or mother, heaven forfend you don't fit the good vs evil role for either.
Cat isn't Jon's mom, she's a woman daring to mom her own kids instead, over her husband's bastard, or even her husband's approval, and it's a crime. Because? Seriously, why does she have to be Mom to anyone else, let alone Jon?
Speaking nothing of the fact that she's also tasked to be perfect Mom to her kids; failure is not allowed, and has ALL the responsibility for any and all poor decisions or circumstances if they befall Robb, Bran and Rickon, or is giving poor example if it's a possible feminine flaw in Sansa and Arya because as girls they'll be sure to get some blame too, without it being in anyway also another parent's Hi Ned responsibility. Responsibility like that, 100% control is only on women, not on male parents or society or influences like other adults and kids and influences that everyone, including the woman, interacts with. Women as mothers or lovers are responsible for managing all that and it has to be the right way.
Cause Ned is her husband and is saying he's the daddy to Jon changes what exactly for Cat in responsibilities to Jon over herself and her kids? Because Jon's her husband's son, and in her house? All of those are things she can't even control. She can control how kind she is, they say. Or take it out on Ned instead. *Insert Thor But Really GIF* But really, can she? Is it her or is it her society making it hell for her and Jon to navigiate? Would you honestly like her if she hated Ned? Or would she just get derided more for being a bad wife and uncaring towards her own kid's feelings on that? If she was kind to Jon would that solve anything in their sucession woes or in the hurt of Ned's affair and secrecy or would that actually be dangerous and hurtful to Catelyn herself and her kid's place in their society? Is there anyway for this woman to fit the ideals or maybe can we accept that she shouldn't have too? And where's Ned's part as husband and daddy? He's absolved of fostering Jon out, or talking to Cat or Jon, because *plot reasons* and his trama.
Ask yourself how much Catelyn owns control of this entire situation and dynamic and how much you value both Ned's feelings and Jon's feeling over Cat's. Cat has to be the better just because she's the woman. Tell me that's not sexism.
Why is it the time she said the worst thing to Jon was when she was outta her mind, outta control mentally and physically and left all alone, and even Jon whom she hurts deeply here, has more recognition that she is a person dealing with her own shit and lashing out than fandom will grant her that ability to have personhood.
If you think their isn't stigma around step-children or children of affairs and how that affects inter-family dynamics today you are lying to yourselves. Westeros may worry about whose grandkids get the castle and legacy, and therefore survival, but today we worry who is left what in the will and who gets to attend the funeral and when. It's still about whose respected. And it doesn't come from the woman pushing it either. Family resemblances, family favorites, who gets the most presents vs who gets cards, where you vacation and visit and live and with who, who you idenitfy with more and how; you learn no one loves unbiased. What you know about all the circumstances of you and/or your siblings birth or your parent's relationship vs their parent's relationship; it all mingles together. It comes despite the best of intentions, and Cat could be as dead as Lyanna and it would still happen.
Fuck off with women, or Cat, are the only ones who control how that happens in a family. Take a good hard look at life and what women do and don't get to control in their lives and then maybe ask yourself why instead of at least sympathizing or understanding it's a reality there is automatic assumed blame and dislike on just them.
You know why I still read about ASOIAF or Game of Thrones? Because seeing how people write about Catelyn Stark is a reaffimation of my belief in sexism in our lives and how no matter how they couch it, people are bias as fuck against women.
Catelyn is the greatest fucking character of the series because she is a spotlight of real in bullshit fantasy narratives and bullshit protagonists for women. She is a whole person; not an ideal, not a sexy fantasy, not a self insert or power fantasy, or a demure backround figure, or saintly icon. She's dealing with life as it happens, and aging, and thinking, and feeling; all for herself and others, and as mother, and daughter, a wife; her own POV in all of it. She tells her view on her life, through her own lens and both her POV input on others, and her actions in the story as a whole have game-changing impacts on other character's emotions, actions, and the overall plot. Even as she exists in a fictional patriarchal fantasy, she shows and represents so many things women have to do or deal with to just fucking live, and it all applies to right here, right now society as well. I think men don't have a fucking clue how to relate to it and other women don't like looking at the dark mirror, hence she gets so much hate. Just like a woman does.
What really makes my blood boil about discussion on Catelyn Stark? Motherhood. Love. Her relationships with Jon and Ned. She must fit the perfect ideals of mother or of wife, even as they hard conflict in this case. I mean it makes sense. That's the common accepted avenues of narratives for women. Lover or mother, heaven forfend you don't fit the good vs evil role for either.
Cat isn't Jon's mom, she's a woman daring to mom her own kids instead, over her husband's bastard, or even her husband's approval, and it's a crime. Because? Seriously, why does she have to be Mom to anyone else, let alone Jon?
Speaking nothing of the fact that she's also tasked to be perfect Mom to her kids; failure is not allowed, and has ALL the responsibility for any and all poor decisions or circumstances if they befall Robb, Bran and Rickon, or is giving poor example if it's a possible feminine flaw in Sansa and Arya because as girls they'll be sure to get some blame too, without it being in anyway also another parent's Hi Ned responsibility. Responsibility like that, 100% control is only on women, not on male parents or society or influences like other adults and kids and influences that everyone, including the woman, interacts with. Women as mothers or lovers are responsible for managing all that and it has to be the right way.
Cause Ned is her husband and is saying he's the daddy to Jon changes what exactly for Cat in responsibilities to Jon over herself and her kids? Because Jon's her husband's son, and in her house? All of those are things she can't even control. She can control how kind she is, they say. Or take it out on Ned instead. *Insert Thor But Really GIF* But really, can she? Is it her or is it her society making it hell for her and Jon to navigiate? Would you honestly like her if she hated Ned? Or would she just get derided more for being a bad wife and uncaring towards her own kid's feelings on that? If she was kind to Jon would that solve anything in their sucession woes or in the hurt of Ned's affair and secrecy or would that actually be dangerous and hurtful to Catelyn herself and her kid's place in their society? Is there anyway for this woman to fit the ideals or maybe can we accept that she shouldn't have too? And where's Ned's part as husband and daddy? He's absolved of fostering Jon out, or talking to Cat or Jon, because *plot reasons* and his trama.
Ask yourself how much Catelyn owns control of this entire situation and dynamic and how much you value both Ned's feelings and Jon's feeling over Cat's. Cat has to be the better just because she's the woman. Tell me that's not sexism.
Why is it the time she said the worst thing to Jon was when she was outta her mind, outta control mentally and physically and left all alone, and even Jon whom she hurts deeply here, has more recognition that she is a person dealing with her own shit and lashing out than fandom will grant her that ability to have personhood.
If you think their isn't stigma around step-children or children of affairs and how that affects inter-family dynamics today you are lying to yourselves. Westeros may worry about whose grandkids get the castle and legacy, and therefore survival, but today we worry who is left what in the will and who gets to attend the funeral and when. It's still about whose respected. And it doesn't come from the woman pushing it either. Family resemblances, family favorites, who gets the most presents vs who gets cards, where you vacation and visit and live and with who, who you idenitfy with more and how; you learn no one loves unbiased. What you know about all the circumstances of you and/or your siblings birth or your parent's relationship vs their parent's relationship; it all mingles together. It comes despite the best of intentions, and Cat could be as dead as Lyanna and it would still happen.
Fuck off with women, or Cat, are the only ones who control how that happens in a family. Take a good hard look at life and what women do and don't get to control in their lives and then maybe ask yourself why instead of at least sympathizing or understanding it's a reality there is automatic assumed blame and dislike on just them.
